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Link to community: https://lemmy.ml/c/liberalnews

Helix
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what’s the difference to regular world news? Are news something political? Shouldn’t they be properly researched anyway?

well, tbh all news outlets will have a political bias, capitalists news will be in favour of capitalism and vice versa.

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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And others will defend authoritarian regimes and push conspiracies.

@nutomic@lemmy.ml
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You talk a lot about authoritarian countries, but simply dismiss anyone who disagrees with your opinion, as if you are somehow infallible. I think the idea that everyone should think exactly like you is in fact much more authoritarian. Dont you believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion? Or is that only if they agree with you?

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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Not every opinion is as legitimate as others. And yours is definitely not lol at least in my opinion. But I wouldn’t be alone in thinking that, at least outside Lemmy.

@nutomic@lemmy.ml
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So you would say that your opinion is superior to mine, because people in your surroundings agree with you? It might surprise you to hear this, but people in my surroundings also agree with me, but for me that isnt a reason to claim superiority. Would you really prefer if Lemmy was an echo chamber where everyone thinks just like you?

This chap believes all people are equal but some people are more equal than others. And if anyone questions them, they will dismiss others with some goal shifting, generalised labelling or ignorant handwaving.

Helix
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This chap believes all people are equal but some people are more equal than others.

Both chaps do, actually 😉

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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I’d consider my stance on a lot of things more reputable and more within reason than yours, yes.

Dessalines
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In one of your earlier comments, you laughed at the notion of western propaganda. Do you believe that western sources / media are more reputable than others?

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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I think there exists western propaganda. But not the one you think exists.

Helix
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What is the kind of western propaganda you think that Dessalines thinks exists? What kind of western propaganda does exist in your opinion and why doesn’t the other kind?

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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I don’t think this is the best place to go in to detail about that, but I’ll do it since you asked.

First, I should admit there are media sources in the west that can be sensational, in-factual or even being pure propaganda outlets. However these are not regarded as reputable sources in the west either.

Where I think dessalines and others takes it too far is when they regard mainstream reputable and scrutanized sources as propagandamachines against China and Russia. And conspiracies go as far as NATO being a neo nazi organization.

Here is a rough list, although not everyone of them probably agree on who they feel about all the sources:

These people will refute everything posted that is negative towards Russia, Belarus and China. And talk down sources as these. I’ve also seen downvoting on criticism of north korea which I’ve found weird. I don’t think that is very rational, at least if you understand how legitimacy and how heads will roll in media for doing inappropriate things.

At the same time they are using alternative news sources things like:

Which are specifically known for spreading conspiracies

Which I’d consider pretty bad

@nutomic@lemmy.ml
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And why is that? Do you not think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion?

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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Apparently I not. And apparently you can’t make value judgments on other people’s opinions either.

@nutomic@lemmy.ml
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Thanks for confirming. I will take this opportunity to ban you from /c/worldnews, because of your hostile behaviour there. This is something I should have done long ago. The main reason I didnt is that I didnt want to give the impression that you were targeted because of our political disagreements. But the fact is that you are causing too much trouble. Take this as a warning, if you keep being hostile to other users, you will get a site ban.

Helix
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I think you shouldn’t ban people just because they’re not nice to you. Which problems did they cause in !worldnews@lemmy.ml? (EDIT: clarifying that I read some of their comments, but nothing banworthy yet – so I’m not saying they don’t cause trouble, just that I’d like to see at least a few instances of hard evidence against them).

We don’t all agree on Lemmy. You’re doing right now what you accuse @soferman@lemmy.ml of:

I think the idea that everyone should think exactly like you is in fact much more authoritarian.

people in my surroundings also agree with me, but for me that isnt a reason to claim superiority. Would you really prefer if Lemmy was an echo chamber where everyone thinks just like you?

I will take this opportunity to ban you from /c/worldnews, because of your hostile behaviour there. […] you are causing too much trouble.

Bruh. “Spamming” links to Reuters and Telegraph hardly counts as “hostile behaviour” in my book. If you ban them because you don’t like the content they’re sharing and you’re the mod of !worldnews@lemmy.ml, just say so. It’d at least be honest. Maybe even honest to yourself.

Censoring wrong opinions instead of answering them with proper sources is a pretty “interesting” move. Sure, you can’t talk to fascists, but I don’t see one here. They’re entitled to their opinion, just as you are entitled to ban them from your community – don’t say you’re doing this because you’re superior, when you claim to not claim superiority. This is an oxymoron.

Do you not think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion?

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
banned
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55M

Do you have a specific instance that transgress the rules though? Or is it a personal thing? Doesn’t really seem fair.

@nutomic@lemmy.ml
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I made a longer comment here. If you still dont know what the problem is after reading that, then I really dont know how to explain it to you.

Helix
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You made a longer comment without concrete examples linking back to this thread here? What kind of circular doublethink is that? At least ban people because they spread verifiable misinformation. You didn’t provide any of them, just your own biased sources, as far as I can tell. I’ll be happy to revise this comment when you can link a few good examples where you’re not just doing the spiderman pointy-game.

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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05M

what

Helix
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55M

this is probably exactly the kind of comments you have been banned for. Your view is not superior to others. You have a different opinion and can’t accept it.

Coincidentally, the admin can’t accept your opinion either.

@jazzfes@lemmy.ml
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Come on, mate. Saying “Non-capitalist outlets defend authoritarian regimes and push conspiracies” hardly matches your mission statement from your sub:

This group is meant as a companion-piece to the !worldnews community and act as a productive and useful addition to the “lemmyverse” as resource for discovering world news.

You might be concerned about this becoming a echo-chamber, which we are painfully aware and concerned about. We can’t claim to be perfect ideal people or guaranty that this will be a perfect community for world news.

But gosh darn we will try out best!"

Bashing alternative views surely isn’t your best, no?

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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I don’t get what you are trying to communicate. Could you explain it differently?

@jazzfes@lemmy.ml
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Your grandparent comment:

And others will defend authoritarian regimes and push conspiracies.

basically says “non-capitalist outlets defend authoritarian regimes …”. I think that’s bashing anything non-capitalist / tilting towards propaganda and believe systems. There are many non-capitalist arguments that don’t have anything to do with authoritarian regimes or conspiracy theories.

Your mission statement says that you want to be productive and avoid becoming an echo chamber.

Those two statements don’t align as far as I’m concerned, since you basically set yourself up as an echo chamber.

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
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Well, I beg to differ. But that is your opinion and I respect that regardless of how misrepresented I feel about how you portray my position.

@jazzfes@lemmy.ml
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Maybe you have time to explain how I misinterpreted your position?

You are trying to throw stones at a wall in hopes of getting bricks to talk.

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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:/

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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I don’t believe all ‘non-capitalistic outlets defend authoritarian regimes’. I believe there is a giant majority community on Lemmy with lemmygrad who will go to any length to defend authoritarian regimes. They are also highly conspiratorial and believe that all of mainstream western media is propaganda, and that there doesn’t exist a true democracy in the west. They will also dominate the threads in addition to some becoming annoyed another narrative is portrayed leading the person sharing the other narrative getting all posts downvoted and most interactions tainted by their wrath.

@jazzfes@lemmy.ml
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All of this sounds quite loaded from an ideological point of view. You may not believe that non-capitalism supports authoritarians, but that is what you wrote.

It feels that your are on a mission to defend western mainstream media, but it seems that your main point is that you don’t like others attacking it. The arguments you don’t like, “dominate the threads” because lemmy started with people on the left end of the spectrum. Calling it “conspirational” and complaining about getting downvoted misses the idea lemmy presents.

You can get downvoted on a comment to eternity. It won’t show up in your karma and you are free to engage in the next discussion as you please. People won’t care about your internet points.

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
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“but it seems that your main point is that you don’t like others attacking it.”

Okai, rando

@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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Imperialist capitalist echo chamber with MBFC “fact checker” as arbiter of truths is the difference.

This comment utterly destroyed and left MBFC credibility limping: https://lemmy.ml/post/68185/comment/57988

Personally I will not even touch this sub with a 100 foot pole. I love critical thinking and educating people. Everyone has freedom though lol

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
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There is an explanation inside the group if you look at the description.

jonuno
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deleted by creator

Helix
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05M

Should they be?

jonuno
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deleted by creator

Helix
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Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry, Logic, the scientific method,…

jonuno
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deleted by creator

Helix
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The point is, politics are in attached to anything within a society and present in places we wouldn’t think they were - including in our thinking and discourse.

I agree, to a certain extent. Usually the natural sciences affect policy and politics and not the other way round. You can’t change the laws of physics just by wishful thinking and issuing a decree things are falling upwards into the sky from now on. You can’t make 2+2=5, even if you’re living in the current year of 1984.

jonuno
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deleted by creator

Hm… I don’t agree with making c/ about one sided news, but I feel that ton of comments and votes casted here are biased. I don’t see anything terrible here… I’m not sure what liberal world news are… but I’m sure a lot of people here feel attacked by this opposite opinion, or world view that OP maybe represents.

Whole above thread doesn’t look like a perfect debate about if such community is right, more like “We are more right than you”.

I think that such c/ could be bad overall, so I’m more or less against it. As my main argument I will just say that world news are world news, and all news/photos links should be there so we all can get a view on an event from as many points of view as possible. I hope OP sees it as I do, or has arguments for this community. I can’t see them. I was trying to look at it like sport related c/, for example like a fanpage for a sports team. But sport is a hobby, what happens in the world and our correct understanding of it is on whole anothet level.

Helix
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15M

As my main argument I will just say that world news are world news, and all news/photos links should be there so we all can get a view on an event from as many points of view as possible.

It’s hard to discuss stuff on !worldnews when you’re banned on !worldnews. This is a pissing match between people who don’t like each other and soferman is losing because the other side is an admin.

Other admins should come and give their opinions on if soferman did break any rules or is there just too many emotions. I would probably unban him, but I’m not admining here so maybe I don’t know something/the full story. He got many downvotes, but I’m not sure why, but it seems that there are people that agree with admin.

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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After making this group I got banned from worldnews. This happened just a few hours ago.

Link: https://lemmy.ml/post/68576

I wasn’t the one who took the initiative to make this group. The other mod did, and I thought I’d help with setting up icon, header and some of the stuff. Also filling up the feed. And as every ‘western’ post who brings criticism towards Russia or China it gets bogged down by people who think it is a conspiracy.

I kind of hate to plaster ‘liberal’ to anything. It’s kind of cringe. But in this context it makes sense, and in retrospect I’m glad it exists.

Well, I did read that. I don’t agree still with this group topic/theme/name. If you can’t get to a conclusion within a group, you don’t make your own group that agrees with you so you can feel comfortable (and become ignorant).

It’s like laying in bed and not going out because the floor is too hard. It is much better to get in interaction with hard floor than rot in bed. (I know that my metaphors are sometimes bad… I hope this one is not :) )

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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Yeah, this is a concern we have elaborated on within the group. But it’s more about having a more fruitfull setup. People have complained that articles that otherwise would be a great discussion is bogged down by the whole discussion regarding all mainstream western media being propaganda and that only lies are told.

Well that’s about what are discussions :)

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
banned
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05M

Well, these aren’t usually discussions and it taints everything. I feel like you haven’t really taken the time understand the context here or you are missing some social cues

@soferman@lemmy.ml
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It is dissapointing to see likely a certain who’s who are downvoting this post, and one who joined the group and downvoted all the posts.

Can’t like leave the group a lone? :/

@Sugardaddyjames@lemmy.ml
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removed by mod

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
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I’ll give you all the sugar you want, sugardaddy <3

@soferman@lemmy.ml
creator
banned
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15M

lol

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